Our Action Point post spiraled dangerously out of control but eventualy spawned a very good, albeit totally unrelated, idea.
"The martial class needs a fighter that is good with one handed weapons (like a rogue), possibly a shield, and decent armor choices (I'm thinking more than the ranger) but more combat oriented (not a defender role). (We all remember how jacked up things got whenwe were not playing our predefined roles.) I'm just not sure APs are the way to accomplish the task." Wiggi
This was one of the main take aways from Nerd Con '08: we thought fighters would do more damage. Be more stiker'ee. So let's put our thinking caps on. How could we modify a class to make the above character. Imagine the hero from Willow. He wears chain or scale mail, sometimes a shield, a sword, runs around combat smashing people and otherwise saving the day.
Now I have some experience at this working with Don to make the Hurler. Never mind the pros and cons of the Hurler at this time. Our findings from that excercise are the simplest way to make a new character concept is to take an existing class and add a new build. For example the Hurler was a ranged primal fighter (aka Shaka Zulu). So we started with the barbarian and added the Hurler build to allow him the use of a shield and thrown weapons.
So this is what I propose. Pick a base class. Then create a new build for the class. The build must be primarily or secondarily a striker, it must use armor upto chain or even scale mail, it must use a shield light or even heavy, it must use military one-handed melee weapons. Idealy he is a medium armor, medium movement, above average damage kind of guy. And, he has to be balanced. The best test for balance is if after you get done making the build you immediatlely start making pacts with the Devil to ensure that I will let you use him, then it probably isn't balanced.
Alternatively, recommend a mulit or hybrid that would work right out of the box.
Good luck!
24 Comments
3 Man
6/9/2009 10:35:37 am
No conclusion yet, but one good finding: fighters don't suck. I made a gaurdian build fighter to see with what I had to work. Right out of the box, with a couple of level appropriate magic items, my 4th level fighter does 44 damage with his daily. That's not too bad. That doesn't include a critical or an action point or any combat challenge ability.
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3 Man
6/9/2009 11:05:44 am
Quick update. With his encounter he can do 22 damage to 8 people without a critical or an action point or combat challenge.
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wiggi
6/9/2009 01:24:50 pm
Don, you asked what powers were interesting or what class to spin off from. Not sure about the class. I created some at-will powers that seem interesting and not to powerful. They are amalgams of all the striker at-will powers except the monk and I may have included some fighter characteristics in one. Be aware that the names are from the primary power that was modified. Any way here they are:
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wiggi
6/9/2009 01:27:49 pm
obviously my conversion was not complete. the howling strike should be Martial source not Primal.
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3 Man
6/9/2009 01:34:26 pm
Looks good. You're going to want to go with convert Riposte to a STR to take advantage of his manly fighter prowess.
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Donk7
6/9/2009 03:07:28 pm
I havent built it up yet but im thinking more along nats lines a new build alltogether. I think Joshs idea would serve as a stop gap but we are trying to create something new here. My thought is a twist on the hybred rules but I gotta work out details still.
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wiggi
6/9/2009 03:17:35 pm
Riposte is normally DEX for the main attack and STR for the secondary. I switched it to STR for the main attack with DEX secondary - to see how agile you are at getting the second attack slipped in as an interrupt.
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Donk7
6/9/2009 11:14:50 pm
Nat is being far more ambitious than Josh or myself ever thought of being by creating powers. I was just gonna take exising powers and use them. YOU GO BOYFRIEND!! So far they look good, balanced but useful.
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3 Man
6/10/2009 12:53:43 pm
I think I have the puzzle solved (in my mind). For better or worse it is a RAW solution. Make a fighter, tempest build and use a feat on training spiked shield. Damage outputs below without AP or critical or combat challenge, but hero is bloodied.
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3 Man
6/11/2009 09:28:43 am
Wow. Speechless? I guess will call that, "'nough said".
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wiggi
6/11/2009 03:16:25 pm
sorry 3man. i have looked into a tempest fighter before and didn't really like what i saw in respect to my model. i am re-examining the build and re-evaluating what can be. i'll let you know what i come up with.
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3 Man
6/12/2009 02:54:26 am
Yeah, I didn't think you would like him, but he is pretty cool. I just found in general fighters were getting a bad wrap. I think they have pretty decent offense compared to other defenders. I made another Job with more conservative choices and I believe he was in the 20/40/60 range for damage output. And he turned into a bear at will...
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wiggi
6/12/2009 03:55:19 am
with the model i was using (shadar-kai chain fighter) i came up with these damages:
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3 Man
6/12/2009 04:10:00 am
I find it an interesting moral quandry working through character creation. I feel like you and I think alike. We come up with an idea and then try to optimize a character. Whereas Don optimizes a character then comes up with a decent backstory. Clearly Dons way gives you a more effective character, but I can't help it if I'm a sucker for plot.
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Donk7
6/12/2009 12:17:19 pm
Plot Shmot. You can have plot when you are dead. Which is what you will be if you base your entire character off of plot.
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3 Man
6/12/2009 01:05:37 pm
You heard it here first, folks: betterization. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Donk7
6/12/2009 02:27:21 pm
Jealousy does not become you Mr. Ely.
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wiggi
6/14/2009 01:29:33 pm
So I have been busy but trying to put together a list of encounter powers. Do you know how hard it is to come up with these things, and all I am doing is pulling from the lists already available. I think I came up with some good ones. I'll let you see them in July. Hopefully by then I have gotten to fifth level powers. (Fourth level is already done though.)
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3 Man
6/14/2009 01:43:44 pm
Just let the betterization flow, baby. Let it flow.
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Donk7
6/14/2009 02:54:59 pm
You guys maybe the most unbetterized people I know.
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wiggi
6/15/2009 06:01:21 am
so while at work, not really working, i thought of a potentially good combo. i will have to sit down and work it out but i thought is a hybrid avenger/barbarian. you can take the avenger power of armor of faith with the barbarian power of armored agility (with hide armor that grants a +7 AC) and if you have a decent (14 + DEX) you can have a good AC for starting out. as for a feat you might want to consider melee training in WIS and put your highest attribute score there. the feat will allow you to use your WIS numbers in place of STR therefore allowing good access to the barbarian powers. that does eat a feat slot up though.
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3 Mab
6/15/2009 09:07:00 am
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3 Man
6/15/2009 09:09:45 am
Posting from the iPhone not easy. Sounds like a human would be good for the extra feat.
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wiggi
6/15/2009 03:03:38 pm
i added agni (the human avenger/barbarian) to my player collection over at obsidian portal. he turned out ok (i think). i also updated usul to reflect some minor changes.
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Author3 Man an aspiring DM relying on story telling and gracious players to enjoy a little game of dice. Archives
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